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Add another thermostat to gas or electric water heater

Control gas water heater with electric thermostat
Use gas water heater to control electric water heater
Control hot water valve using thermostat
Electric thermostat on gas water heater
electric thermostat on gas water heater
Use torch or jig saw

Use same idea to add another thermostat to electric water heater

This is concept idea.

I have not tested this idea/    but seems reasonable

Electric water heater thermostat could be installed onto the inner tank of gas water heater and provide electrical control based on water temperature inside tank... for example turn off power to recirculation pump that pumps water from solar panel or secondary tank...or control electric water heater from the gas water heater... or turn off solenoid valve that turns off gas line... or connect to indicator light to notify when tank reaches set point... or connect to solenoid water valve that turns on hot water. Thermostat is mechanical and will work with 12-12 Volt AC-DC, 120-208-240, 277 volt AC electricity.

Operation would not conflict with ordinary operation or safety features of gas water heater assuming temperature of water does not exceed the 180-190 degree trip-off of gas control valve ECO. Read about gas control valve thermostats

1) Cut through outer shell near top of tank on opposite side from TP valve

Voids product warranty
Wear respirator to avoid fumes from cutting insulation

Install electric thermostat on gas water heater 2) Cut 3/4" hole for conduit connection and wires


tapered drill bit

Tapered drill bit for plastic or metal box

Buy tapered drill/ step drill bit for any size hole
Step drill bits at Amazon
Neiko tapered drill bit 1/4"-1-3/8 holes

Buy electric wiring Book
Black and Decker Complete guide to wiring
More resources;
See inside main breaker box
control gas water heater with electric thermostat
4) Epoxy or weld small clip to steel tank that holds thermostat
Thermostat clip Buy
Adapter kit with thermostat clip
Thermostat clip

Clip to hold thermostat/ Thermostat mounting bracket

Bradford White part # 239-44479-00/
Mounting bracket plus 2 thermostats 265-51046-00

Buy

Adapter kit with thermostat clip
Bradford White 239-44479-00 thermostat bracket at Bradford

265-51046-00 at Amazon
Thermostat clip     Thermostat mounting bracket

Clip to hold thermostat/ Thermostat mounting bracket

Bradford White part # 239-44479-00/
Mounting bracket plus 2 thermostats 265-51046-00
Rheem AM23557

Buy

Adapter kit with thermostat clip
Bradford White 239-44479-00 thermostat bracket at Bradford

265-51046-00 bracket plus 2 thermostats at Bradford White
265-51046-00 bracket plus 2 thermostats at Amazon
control gas water heater with electric thermostat
5) Install ordinary upper thermostat

Thermostat must sit flat against tank to read temperature through tank wall
Choose thermostat set point between 90-150 -or- 120-180
Thermostat turns ON or OFF at thermostat set point, depending on wiring

Rated 30 amps @ 240 Volt. Works with any voltage 12-24-28-120-208-240-277
Mechanical switch requires no voltage to operate switch

Buy 90-150 degree F for residential tank:
Water heater thermostats at Amazon

Buy 120-180 degree F commercial thermostat
Camco 120F to 180F thermostat (commercial grade only)
Camco 180F lower thermostat (commercial grade only)
magnetic thermostat switch 5a) Use magnetic thermostat switch instead of water heater thermostat

Magnetic .... no bracket needed.
ON at 120F / OFF at 90 F... use relay if you want OFF at 120F and ON at 90F
Rated 15 amps @ 120 Volt. Works with any voltage 12-24-28-120-208-240-277
Mechanical switch requires no voltage to operate switch
Control contactor with thermostat
Buy 90-120 degree F thermostat:
Magnetic thermostat kit at Amazon
Thermostat switches at Amazon
Adjustable thermostat 130-90
Oven thermostat

Resource:
Bi-metal thermostat switch limits
T36 therm-o-disc
Contactors
Select breaker and wire size
electric thermostat on gas water heater 6)  Cover thermostat with insulation and add salvaged cover off electric water heater from recycle center.
Thermostat must be covered with insulation. Exposure to open air will cause thermostat to misread tank temperature

Resource:
How to wire electric water heater thermostats

Insulation and cover must be over thermostat.

Exposing thermostat to cool room temperature will cause tank to overheat.
Thermostat cannot read correct temperature unless covered correctly.

Buy:
Upper element terminal protector
Lower element terminal protector

Resource
Troubleshoot electric water heater

Upper and lower thermostats
thermostat temperature range


Buy residential upper and lower thermostats

Thermostats are interchangeable/ each works with your water heater
Buy 90-150 degree F for residential tank:

Water heater thermostats at Amazon
Camco thermostats at Amazon
More thermostats
89T short/ dual-element thermostat at Amazon
Example Camco dual-element thermostat at Amazon

Commercial water heater thermostats

Buy commercial upper and lower thermostats

Buy/ 3 phase water heater thermostat 120-180 degree F
Camco 120F to 180F thermostat (commercial grade only)
Camco 180F lower thermostat (commercial grade only)
Read more about 3-phase water heater

Residential tank thermostat is rated 90-150 F
Residential TP valve will release water at 150 degrees F
Only use 180 F thermostat on commercial water heater that is rated for high temperature

Marathon water heater is rated 170 degrees F

DIY help for 2 water heaters: Make lower thermostat from upper
Read about two water heaters

Best to replace both thermostats.
There is no guaranteed way to test thermostats.
If thermostat is sticking, then test includes rotating temperature knob which can temporarily unstick thermostat. So bad thermostat appears to work correctly.
89T thermostat kit
89T thermostat

89T thermostat kit

Buy from my affiliate links
Shorter style 89T single-element thermostat at Amazon
89T13 dual-element thermostat at Amazon
89T13 dual element kit with jumper wire

Shorter style 89T single-element thermostat at Amazon
89T short/ dual-element thermostat at Amazon
Therm-o-disc thermostat protectors

Thermostat protectors/ for therm-o-disc upper and lower thermostats

Terminal protectors for therm-o-disc
Does not fit Apcom style
All thermostats are interchangeable

Buy:
Upper element terminal protector
Lower element terminal protector

Off code water heater element thread to pipe thread            1" NPT stainless nut          silicone O ring

Be careful when connecting stock tank to AC voltage

NEVER touch this metal tank when power is ON
Install safety shut-off switch
Label the tank. Label the safety switch
Stand on dry boards
Never stand on bare soil
If you connect 48 volt DC solar power to elements, using small soar array or windmill generator, to keep tank from freezing, then that voltage will not kill

Install element

Drill 1" hole
Insert element
Use element washer or use silicone O ring
Tighten element with 1" stainless nut
NOTE: the element is straight thread, not tapered thread

Control with water heater thermostats or with digital controller

Buy:
Silicone O ring
1" straight pipe thered to hose thread
1" stainless nut
Water heater elements

Resource:
Read how to convert AC water heater to DC/ high voltage
Convert AC water heater to DC/ low voltage
Formula for heating in perfect environment without considering heat loss from exposure to open air, lack of insulation:
Gallon Per Hour (Electric) = (KW x 3413) divided by (temp. rise x 8.25) or (KW x 414) divided by (temp rise.)
Let's say you have 5500 watt elements.
let's say incoming water temperature is 65F and you want to heat tank to 105, or 40 rise in temperature.

5500 watt or 5.5Kw elements x 3413 = 18771.5
40 degree temperature rise x 8.25 = 330
So in this situation, each element would heat 56.88 gallons per hour

If you have 4500 watt elements and incoming water temperature is 55, and you want to heat to 120, then the temperature rise is 65
4.5 KW x 3413 = 15358.5
65 degree temperature rise x 8.25 = 536
So one element would heat 28 gallons per hour

This number is for EACH element, but does NOT consider heat loss from open tank, room temperature, or lack of insulation.
water heater control
Larger image

Control box for the tank shown above using digital controller

Digital controller activates a contactor (simple electromagnetic switch)
There are 4 contactors... 1 for each element
There are 4 breakers... 1 for each element
And they installed a delay timer because the entire load of 4 elements is 120 amps... and they wanted 2 elements to start later than first two elements so the main breaker does not trip

Resources:

Delay timer installation
Contactors
Select breaker and wire size
PID temperature controller

Digital controller... activated by temperature probe

Proportional Integral Dervative/ PID control

PID controller is activated by temperature-sensitive thermocouple or thermopile.
Use the PID to control any other circuit.
Best to use PID to control a contactor or relay instead of directly connecting load to PID
Use contactor or relay as shown in illustrations below

Using a separate contactor or relay that is rated for elements and motors allows millions operations without risk of overload and burnout of PID terminals.

Buy:

PID Temperature controllers
Digital temperature controller
30 amp contactors
Omron relay
Solid State Relay Board for Arduino


Resources:
Contactors
Select breaker and wire size
Example wiring for PID
PID wiring

Example PID thermostat wiring

Thermocouple temperature sensor connects to terminals 4-5
Check input and output voltage before buying PID
PID wiring
PID

Re-wire water heater for PID

Insert probe near lower thermostat.
Position against tank wall and cover w insulation

Wire thermostat and element as shown
240 volt line for water heater MUST be routed through ECO located on upper thermostat.
Why? Because ECO is safety device that will cut power to element in event of overheating.

PID is powrered by 120 volt for example.
Hot and neutral are needed for PID.
Set temperature controller program.
When temperature probe senses cold water, then PID activates contactor
Contactor switches 30 amp water heater circuit, and lower element tuns on.
Lower element keeps tank hot.
This wiring design, both hot wires to element are cut off by contactor.
Do NOT connect 240 volt 30 amp water heater circuit to PID... must use contactor

Buy:
PID Temperature controllers
Digital temperature controller
30 amp contactors

Solid State Relay Board for Arduino

Resources:
Contactors
Select breaker and wire size

Add PID to water heater to turn off solar pump before it overheats tank and trips ECO-reset on upper thermostat

This is for a dual-purpose tank, where you connect your own solar collector, but keep the electric connection.
Typical home water heater is NOT rated for solar applications, and ECO-reset button will not turn off solar pump unless rewired for that purpose.
Solar temperatures can reach 180F ... this is a fatal temperature if tank ruptures when you are resetting the ECO.

Insert probe near upper thermostat.
Position against tank wall and cover w insulation
Saves having to reset on very sunny days, prevents tank from overheating, keeps you away from very hot water.
Shortcoming of this design is that it not fail-safe if the PID or the contactor fails. And the ECO trip only tells you that the tank overheated.
A new tank is supposedly rated 300F, but older tank is probably weakened by rust.
One final water heater safety device is the TP valve that releases very hot water to protect tank, but doesn't protect rusted tank or your property. Always stand clear of the TP valve release.

Buy:

PID Temperature controllers
Digital temperature controller
30 amp contactors

Solid State Relay Board for Arduino
Oven thermostat

Control temperature using oven thermostat

16 amp @ 240 volt.
Use contactor to control 30 amp 240V element

Buy:
Oven thermostat
Magnetic thermostat kit at Amazon
Thermostat switches at Amazon
Adjustable thermostat 130-90
grundfos thermostat
Clip-on thermostat control

Control 120 volt circuit with clip-on-pipe thermostat
grundfos thermostat

Clip on thermostat control

120 volt thermostat-switch clips onto water line
Intended for use with UP series pump and timer
Lets you control pump or any 120 volt circuit based on temperature of water pipe
Read manual and make sure it fits intended application
Local hot tub at YMCA/ temperature set at 105/ Typical shower-bath 110 degrees F

Buy:
Taco aquastat 95-115 degree
Thermostat/ ON at 85 degrees/ OFF at 105 degrees
Aquastat (thermostat)/ ON at 105 degrees/ OFF at 115 degrees
24 hour programmable timer for UP series pumps
Grundfos recirculation systems at Amazon
UP series pump at Amazon

Resource:
Clip on thermostat manual
UP series specification sheet
How to install recirculation system

water hreater freezing

Prevent water heater freezing

Add a freeze control circuit to water heater wires.
This would activate when temperature drops below 40F.
When you leave for vacation, turn off 30 amp switch, and then freeze control overides switch when air temperature drops below 40F

Buy:
Freeze thermostat
30 amp switches
30 amp contactors

Resources:
More about Contactors
Override water heater timer with freeze control

Multimeter

Test for breaks in wire/ Test for voltage
Most appliance require 80% rated voltage to function correctly
Buy:
Multimeters at Amazon
Electric testers at Amazon 
Resource:
How to test and replace element
How to test thermocouple
Element tests for 120 volts
How to test wire
Safety when testing wires:
Never touch wet or previously flooded appliance.
Never stand on wet surface when working on electric.
Never stand on bare soil, put down dry boards.
Tape tester leads to wood sticks to keep hands away from power.
Use non-contact voltage tester before touching wires.
Never touch or lean into any made of metal.
Remove metal objects from pockets.
Do not use oxygen or fuel accelerants in same room as electrcial repairs

Resource:
Basic house wiring

Non-contact voltage tester

Test for power without touching connectorss
NEVER assume power is OFF
Buy:

Non-contact voltage tester Amazon
Electric testers at Amazon
 
Resource:
How to test electric power is off

Resource:
How to install terminals
Treminals

Terminals

Buy:
Terminal kit
Blue for 16-14 wire
Yellow for 12-10 wire
Read about terminals
wire connector assortment

Twist-on wire connector assortments

Do not reuse old connectors 
Buy

Connector assortment at Amazon
Connector assortment at Amazon

Resource
How to select and install twist-on wire connectors
Weatherproof wire connector

Weatherproof wire connector

Connector cavity is full of silicone
Built-in cover keeps silicone in place
Protect from water, dust etc
Buy from my affiliate links
Weatherproof size 14 to 6 Amazon
Weatherproof size 22 to 8 Amazon

Resource
How to select and install twist-on wire connectors
Wire connector wrench

Wrench to apply wire connectors

Tighten connector 
Buy

Wire connector blaster
Twist connector wrenches at Amazon

Resources:
How to twist wire
How to select and install twist-on wire connectors
Push on wire connectors

Push-on wire connectors in place of twist-on connectors

Buy:
Push on wire connectors Amazon
Red 3P connector for 10-14 gauge wire
Lever connectors for stranded wire at Amazon
add solder to stranded wire

Turn stranded wire into solid wire

Add solder to 1" length of tightly twisted stranded wire to make into solid wire
Heat wire. Touch solder to wire. Let cool. File away over-solder.
Buy:
soldering guns
Resource

Timer caught fire

linesman pliers
Buy tools:
Wire strippers at Amazon
Linesman pliers
Utility knife at Amazon
End cutting nippers at Amazon

Fire inside timer caused by stranded wire
Keep enclosure door closed at all times

Fire caused by stranded wire

Do not use stranded wire under screw plate

Applies to timers, switches, outlets, pumps etc.
Small devices, with small loads, such as lamp socket, stranded wire is fine
Add solder to 1" length of tightly twisted stranded wire to make into solid wire
Heat wire. Touch solder to wire. Let cool. File away over-solder.
Buy:
soldering guns
Resource

Timer caught fire
Insdulation under screw plate
Larger image
Both wires MUST be same gauge
Straighten each wire
Tighten screw very tight against copper wire



Larger image

Connect stranded and solid with wire nut and run jumper to screw plate.
Or add solder to stranded wire to make solid.
See example image

Fire safety

Use only solid copper wire, and no insulation under screw plate.

Max 2 wires under screw plate

Both wires same gauge

Do not use stranded wire, it will come loose with heat expansion and overheat and cause burning. Turn stranded wire into solid wire by soldering stranded wire.

Always keep enclosure (box) cover closed

Orange 10 gauge 30 amp


Orange/ #10 gauge for for 30 amp circuits including water heater
with ground
Buy:
10-2 gauge/ 30 amp
10-3/ 30 amp

NMB is house wiring
UF is underground

Yellow 12 gauge 20 amp


Yellow/ #12 gauge wire for 20 amp
with ground
Buy:
12-2 gauge/ 20 amp
12-3/ 20 amp

Rolls of stranded wire

NMB is house wiring
UF is underground
White 14 gauge 15 amp


White/ #14 gauge wire for 15 amp
with ground
Buy:
14-2 gauge/ 15 amp
14-3/ 15 amp

NMB is house wiring
UF is underground

Copper ground wire
Use same size as other wire in circuit

Buy
Spools of ground wire


Household NM-B Wires are color-coded so inspectors/ electricians can easily identify which wire is used during construction

Match wire size and breaker amp rating

If your home was wired by professional electrician who pulled permits, then circuit breaker and wire size will match. If manufactured home or travel trailer has not been altered by homeowner then breaker and wire size will match.

If breaker is oversized for wire... fire danger

Breaker can let too much electricity travel through the wire. Wire can overheat and cause fire.
Call electrician if you suspect wiring is not correct,
Absolute electrocution danger when removing cover off main panel. More information below.
Main breaker terminals are still Hot when main breaker is turned off.

Buy:
Wire wire at Amazon

Resource:
Select correct wire and breaker size
How to replace circuit breaker


Electricity leaves power plant What is 3-phase electric: power plant to end user
Support the economy:
Buy water heaters  from my associate links:
50 gallon Gas water heaters at Amazon
40 gallon gas water heaters at Amazon
50 gallon Electric water heaters at Amazon
40 gallon electric water heaters at Amazon
Hybrid / heat pump/ water heaters at Amazon

Resources:
How to install gas water heater
How to install electric water heater
Troubleshoot gas water heater
Troubleshoot electric water heater
Point of use water heaters
Resources:
Troubleshoot Gas valves with manuals
Icon gas valve

Install and troubleshoot garbage disposal Waste King disposal
Install point of use water heater

How to wire tankless electric
Point of use water heater

Anode rods anode rods
Recirculation system

Tankless recirculation
Point of use water heater
Type 1 and type 2 surge protection surge protection
Gas and electric water heaters Buy
Electric


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box timers Resource:
Compare box timers
DPDT timers
Intermatic
Control water heater w/ Z-wave

Contol with WiFi
Intermatic control centers Resource:
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+ manuals and parts


All control centers and parts

Including Z-wave
programmable timer Resource:
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surge protection
Resource:
Type 1-2-3 surge protection/ wiring and manuals

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